Resistor wire

[Dangerdoc]

OK, been to the opticians and got new glasses after hours of studying Haynes wiring diagram on an Auto 1987 3.5 EFi (Flapper) (RHD) and absolutely cannot, for love nor money, find an inline resistor wire for the +ve feed to the coil.

Does anyone know if these things actually exist. I am deffo not confusing the little trigger wire resistor from the -Ve side of the coil to the over-run relay and then onto Pin No 1 in the ECU.

This is important as I have removed the Hyfire VI A from the car, tested the Mallory series 57 MBI dizzy and in-line circuit protector and also the Pro-master coil. The original coil is still in-situ but connected to the EZ trigger.

There is a Mallory part No 700 (Ballast Resistor - long rectangular, square section and white coloured ballast resistor) removed also.

I need to ensure that I am not "over-resisting" the circuit and will be replacing the Mallory kit on Sunday this coming weekend.

Mallory support is confusing in that I have all the relevant pdf files demonstrating the wiring but they depend on whether there is an in-situ ballast wire already in the wiring loom.

Driving me mental - or is that just increasing the level of "mentalness"

Need any more info - let me know and I'll do my best to provide all the info to get some help in this struggle.

Thanks all.

Doc

[Paul B]

OK, been to the opticians and got new glasses after hours of studying Haynes wiring diagram on an Auto 1987 3.5 EFi (Flapper) (RHD) and absolutely cannot, for love nor money, find an inline resistor wire for the +ve feed to the coil.

Does anyone know if these things actually exist. I am deffo not confusing the little trigger wire resistor from the -Ve side of the coil to the over-run relay and then onto Pin No 1 in the ECU.

This is important as I have removed the Hyfire VI A from the car, tested the Mallory series 57 MBI dizzy and in-line circuit protector and also the Pro-master coil. The original coil is still in-situ but connected to the EZ trigger.

There is a Mallory part No 700 (Ballast Resistor - long rectangular, square section and white coloured ballast resistor) removed also.

I need to ensure that I am not "over-resisting" the circuit and will be replacing the Mallory kit on Sunday this coming weekend.

Mallory support is confusing in that I have all the relevant pdf files demonstrating the wiring but they depend on whether there is an in-situ ballast wire already in the wiring loom.

Driving me mental - or is that just increasing the level of "mentalness"

Need any more info - let me know and I'll do my best to provide all the info to get some help in this struggle.

Thanks all.

Doc

Can't you simply measure the voltage supply to the coil with the ignition turned on? That will tell you if you have a ballast wire in the system.

[Dangerdoc]

Hi Paul

Yip I could indeed do that but with the system the way it has been messed about there are some strange readings.

That's why I am keen to see if there is a wire in the system so that I can find the thing, remove it and then properly fit a single ballast resistor to get it right if that is what is needed.

The issue is, if it actually is there then where to find the thing.

Confusing - indeed. That's why I posted the message so that if anyone is in the know on this one it can help.

Done the meter checks and get varying readings all over the place. Thinking it might be a broken wire or a dodgy connection. So rather than tug about for hours - seek advice.

Grateful but keen to know if the wire is normally incorporated.

[bodger]

i asume we are talking flapper system here ?

the only resistor wire is a pink section of wire inline in the black and white,the one that goes to the ECU from the coil neg
it's built inside the wiring loom

have you got a problem with running ?

[Dangerdoc]

Hi Bodger,

Well that's interesting indeed. If the resistor is inline from the -Ve side of the coil to pin 1 of the ECU then there is no reduced voltage to the coil when either cranking (other than normal voltage drop as the battery drives the starter and ign) or indeed running.

From what I could gather there is a resistor wire that is bypassed on cranking to provide the max voltage to the coil when under cranking conditions and then is switched into series when under running conditions thus reducing the voltage to the +Ve side of the coil so as to not kill the thing over time.

The benefit of short full voltage at the coli, oops medical stuff , ahem .... coil creates a bigger spark to get the thing running when cold.

Now if it is indeed from the trigger side of the coil then this is totally negated, or am I being a Div:?:

My plan is to ensure that this resistor wire is not interfering with the system when I re-install the new Hyfire VI A unit, mallory 700 ballast, promaster coil (recommended by the Mallory Hyfire tables) and the original coil and EZ trigger (this prevents a reduced signal going to Pin 1 on the ECU by allowing the EZ trigger to kill the spark from the resident original coil but sends the correct voltage trigger to the ECU).

Wiring is a bit of fun - but that's what makes this all interesting.

Running is not a problem at the mo as it is all planned, yet again, to be flashed up for the first time on Sunday (yet again).

Indeed it is a Flapper EFi - listed in the spec at topic opening but your assumption is perfect.

Doc

[bodger]

have a look at this :

http://www.tvrwedgepages.co.uk/maint_fuel_injection.pdf

very informative , i refer to it again and again

[Dangerdoc]

Hi Bodger,

Top man. I must confess however, I was reading that very document on the tube from work today and it is this article plus the haynes manual and other bits of information that is causing the confusion.

I fully comprehend this article. You can clearly see that there is a white wire from the starter to the dizzy and also that it is connected to the coil.

The only resistor I can see is the ballast that leads to pin 1 on the ECU for the trigger and that is an important wee falla.

The pink wire hidden in the loom is another matter, never seen that and will have to have a dig it is not listed in the diagram.

So getting to the bottom of this riddle is a problem.

Any suggestions further matey?

Any auto electricians out there that know the score on this article:?:

[bodger]

have a look at these too :

http://www.tvrwedgepages.co.uk/epistles.pdf

http://rebornco.com/mgbv8/rv8fuel.htm

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-14CUX-EFI.htm

[ramon alban]

The only resistor I can see is the ballast that leads to pin 1 on the ECU for the trigger and that is an important wee falla.

So getting to the bottom of this riddle is a problem.

Hello Doc,

Interestingly, it appears to have picked up three different descriptive titles depending upon which Rover document one reads. Over time, it has been variously referred to as either a Trigger, Ballast or Inline Resistor.

The word "Ballast" is most misleading as that is usually a term used for a resistor employed to reduce the operating voltage at an ignition coil.

The word "Trigger" is a slight misnomer in that it implies some sort of active function which it does not possess.

Thus the word "Inline" appears to best describe its use and function.

However the word "Inline" is subsequently used in the context of later Rover Efi systems, as is the word "Tuning", I believe.

If I had to plump for a word it would be "Trigger" because that is what is happening to pin 1 of the ECU when the signal thro' the resistor triggers the ECU to fire the injectors.

But then, 20 odd years after all the books have been written, it is anybodies guess as to what the designer of the system really had in mind

You can find a more comrehensive explanation in the Efi index on my website.

[bodger]

i think as far as i can gather it's only a "tuning" resistor on the later hotwire systems , and the same 2 wires on the loom are used for the over run valve on the flapper system

[Dangerdoc]

Yup, both of you are correct.

Ballast should be reserved to be applied to the ign coil in that it protects the triggering side of the amplifier module.

The hotwire system is indeed equipped with a "tuning" resistor that can be swapped out - but this is not an option on the flapper system.

There is some real confusion over flapper and hotwire from some when reading the systems. The reference Bodger sent me, and that I already refer to as well - excellent document - is however primarily for a flapper system but introduces components that are only seen in the hotwire system - again some more merging over time.

The inline resistor on the -Ve side of the coil is just that a little black lucar equipped resistor that allows voltage to trigger the sensor in the ECU know the engine is running and hence fire the injectors - real simple.

Well in the mean time I have been chatting to Mallory and also CPC in the US regarding their wiring diagrams. Even they cannot agree.

The complication is that the dizzy is a 57 series Mallory MBI unit, inline surge protection unit between that and the Hyfire VI A CDI unit, the promaster coil and an EZ trigger unit with the original stock coil in the vehicle also.

There is a Mallory (part No 700) ballast resistor in use also. BUT now it seems that they have their wiring diagram wrong in that this ballast resistor is NOT needed with the Hyfire VI A unit at all but they left it in just in case the hyfire failed and then the dizzy could be linked to the stock coil and the engine ran as originally designed.

If the MBI is ran without a ballast resistor then the green wire to the trigger side of the dizzy will eventually be over-voltaged and then it will kill the magnetic module - been there - done that.

So today, (between patients nonetheless - we love our health service), I will be redrawing the wiring for a dual coil setup and will post the diagram in here to have it reviewed and let you guys see what I am thinking is correct - scary eh?

The help and opinions are great though as it does help with the overall picture and keeps me thinking about the task.

Cheers lads.