GEARBOX/////HELP HELP!!!!!!!

mantav8rally · Post by **mantav8rally** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:15 pm

hi can anyone help please please please!!!!!

i have a rover v8 3.5efi with a borg t5 fitted in my opel manta.

Since i bought the car the gearbox/clutch have worked fine however it has always made a whining noise when operating the clutch (sounds like an ott knackered ford escort release bearing howl).

My last rally when sat at the start line with it in gear and obviously clutch pressed it started to make a gear crunching noise but high pitched and also creeping forward.

So i decided to change the clutch, i renewed the housing and friction plate for brand new yet it still continues to make the noise but worse. It only duz it now and again even with the clutch pressed and gearstick in the neutral posistion, it will stop when i release the pedal and press it again.

I have got to the point now where i think the parts mix match are the problem, so below is what im using.

Rover v8 3.5 efi
rover v8 fly wheel
borg warner t5 box
spacer plate
ap friction plate(which i think is for a ford)
rover v8 clutch housing/cover
ford release bearing/flat face
ford cosworth arm(the bit with the cable attached that moves the release bearing, not sure what its called)

SOMEONE PLEASE HELP IM LOSING THE PLOT AND MY MIND!!!!!!!

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:10 pm

Hi. Could be the spigot bush chattering. What bush are you using?
T5 into a rover needs a special bush!!!
Regards Denis

mantav8rally · Post by **mantav8rally** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:16 pm

not sure, would it cause me not to be able to engage a gear when the noise starts even with the clutch pressed, thing is it goes in gear most of the time easy without noise thats why its puzzleing me, not sure what one im using

ian.stewart · Post by **ian.stewart** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:57 am

Making an educated guess, sounds that you may need to adjust the system, if the clutch is dragging, it means its not disengaging fully, I would guess you need 3-5mm free play on the clutch arm before the clutch arm starts to pull against the bearing, another thing I have seen with uprated clutches is the clutch arm bend over time

Ian Anderson · Post by **Ian Anderson** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:21 am

Or

The arms that press the thrust bearing are not square to the bearing meaning it presses more on one side than the other.

With some of the plasticy type carriers this allows them to overheat and cause your symptoms.

Can also be caused by the pivot bush being worn and allowing rotation around the wrong plane.

Basically sometimes it will push correctly and the next time it will be slightly cocked and thus snag

Ian

DEVONMAN · Post by **DEVONMAN** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:12 am

You can eliminate the spigot bush theory as follows.

Next time the noise occurs when the clutch is presses and in neutral, move the gear lever towards 2nd and see if the note of the noise changes.
If there is no change then the spigot bush is probably ok.

It's possible that your clutch cover should have a round faced bearing. That is if the diaphragm fingers are the flat type.
However, this in itself is unlikely to cause the noise unless it's a self centering type bearing which is not centralising properly.
Regards Denis

SuperV8 · Post by **SuperV8** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:26 am

Have you checked the crank end float?

As you press the clutch it loads the crank, if there is excessive end float the crank moves effectivley increasing the slack in the clutch release system potentially causing clutch drag and noise. With the engine running shine a lamp on the crank pulley and get someone to press the clutch to see if you can actually see the pulley moving forward?

Also you say your realease bearing is the flat type, this needs to be used with curved fingers on the cover plate.

Tom.

mantav8rally · Post by **mantav8rally** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:05 pm

i wish you where all here to have a look at it for me, im more lost now, thanx for the advice, i will have to start eliminating, dont realy want to spend any money if i can help it, if i video what it duz will this help to pin point it easier, also i will take some pics of all my the bits im using.

my release bearing is flat faced and sits correct in the arm so i asume its all cosworth t5 stuff....

should the friction plate come away from the fly wheel when clutch not engaged as i cant see it coming away, should i see if a flat head screw driver will prize in between, carefully????????

stevieturbo · Post by **stevieturbo** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:23 pm

be more specific about the problem.

You say the noise is with gearbox in gear, and clutch depressed.

It is impossible at this point for it to be a gearbox problem. Nothing in the gearbox can be turning which also includes the input shaft and friction disc.

Parts that are turning are clutch release bearing part that operates the clutch, and the cover/flywheel.

If it makes noise only when depressed, first port of call would be the release bearing.

If the clutch is dragging and causing drive even when depressed. Is there air in the hydraulics ? Is it cable ?
Does the clutch fork actually move sufficiently to disengage drive ?

Was the friction plate free to move on the gearbox splines ?

mantav8rally · Post by **mantav8rally** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:01 pm

hi i thought about the bearing but as it duz it every now and again i thought something else, i asume i have enough movement in the clutch as i can adjust it so my pedal wont go all the way to the floor so i asume that the housing fingers are fully depressed, the clutch is cable, if i film it so the noise can be heard would that help do you think?

ian.stewart · Post by **ian.stewart** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:13 pm

how much free play is there in the clutch arm when the bearing is against the clutch, there should only be 3-4 mm movement before the arm is touching the cable fulcrum

SuperV8 · Post by **SuperV8** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:20 am

What type of fingers do you have on the cover plate? You say you have a flat release bearing, but you don't say what the cover plate fingers are i.e. straight of curved?

With your flat release bearing you need to use a cover plate which has rounded tips to the fingers.

Tom.

mantav8rally · Post by **mantav8rally** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:07 pm

hi, the fingers are flat however again would that affect it so that 90% of the time it would work, i put the noise that its always had down to that however this is louder and mre violent when stood in gear clutch pressed, im feeling more confident on solving it now with all you clever lot

SuperV8 · Post by **SuperV8** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:22 pm

You have the wrong combination of cover plate and release bearing.

With the flat bearing and flat springs when you depress the clutch the the corner of the bearing will act on the springs causing point loading, elevated wear and noise.

You need to use either a flat bearing with curved spring or a curved bearing with a flat spring.
(With a curved spring its not the length of the spring that's curved, just the tip)

If the noise only happens when your foot is on the clutch I don't really thing it could be much else!

Is the engine box split or is it still in the car?

Tom.

mantav8rally · Post by **mantav8rally** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:40 pm

its in the car again now, i was aware of that when i bought and fitted the new clutch but all i have done is replace the clutch with exactly the same items as the old one and it worked without this problem, thats why im so confused, if i was to change say the release bearing for a round faced one how would i make that work because the bearing sits in the cosworth arm hence i suspect cosworth bearing