Baffled Sump....

mike332 · Post by **mike332** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:43 am

I'm going to be building the engine fairly soon. (3.5 rover) It's going to be used for a stockcar, so it will be going round left turns approx 1/2 of it's running time. What advice would you guys give regarding baffles in the sump to stop oil surge? Is it likely to be a problem with the rover engine, or will it be o.k. as standard?

If it does need baffles, what configuration do you think I will need?

Cheers in advance

The Original Tom · Post by **The Original Tom** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:39 pm

My sump was baffled any way. The oil will fill the pan but some may slop over if it's going really fast and you might lose pressure.
The tea-strainer could be 're-shaped' to pick up from nearer the right of the sump, which would serve well.
However the engine runs in range rovers etc, and my landy certainly obtains some crazy angles side to side and back to front and I've not lost oil pressure yet.
I'm really just hypothesising here as I'm not sure about building a stock car!

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:45 am

Hi basically as Tom says, move the pick up to the outside (right side) of the sump, it would realy be best if you can make a " kick out" to the right side of the sump, this is a box area at the bottom of the sump that sticks out to the right of the normal line, making one of these and putting the pickup in it will be the best way of ensuring oil is around the pickup and a simple one way center baffle. You will also then increase the amount of oil you have (no bad thing). I imagine your car will be spending most of its time above 75% max revs so I would add a windage tray at the top of the sump and a crank scraper. You might want to look at reducing oil flow to the top of the engine as sustained periods of high revs on a road based oiling system can end up with alot of oil in the top of the engine, bad for oil pick up and it reduces power and makes the engine slow to pick up on the throttle, you will also need to improve drain back to the sump.
best regards
Mike

The Original Tom · Post by **The Original Tom** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:28 am

Glad I'm not in the wrong ball-park totally!

A good way of improving drain-back on the Rover is t carefully polish out the roughness left by the casting in side the valley.
If you're going to be high-revving I've also heard of a good way to improve oil flow to the timing chain area. Drill 2 holes (about 3mm?) in the front of the engine (1 either side of the camshaft pulley), just at the bottom of each side of the valley, next to the first tappet guide. This will allow ol to flow through and not starve the cam.
Rob Heath did this but I can't for the life of me find the pictures he posted. Doubt he'll be along for a while I haven't seen him about on here for ages.

Both of these should help greatly with drain-back, and best of all, they're both FREE!

Obviously make sure you clean out al the crap and dust 100% before rebuilding

Tom.

Wotland · Post by **Wotland** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:09 pm

Hello, if you need of pictures of baffled trapped sump tell me. You can already look here : http://www.v-8.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1524

Dimitri

mike332 · Post by **mike332** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:14 pm

Thanks for the replies people, I've been away for the weekend, so please don't think I was being rude. I like the sound of the side extension and central baffle.

Crank scraper? any pictures at all? I've heard of them, and undestand the principle, but never seen one...... alsosomebody mentioned reducing the upward flow to the head....... how? Sounds like all good advice, cheers

x.l.r.8 · Post by **x.l.r.8** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:35 am

drill and tap the oil way from the engine and fit a grub screw predrilled with the bore of your choice, I think it was 3/16th but it was so many years ago it hurts. Some restrict at the rocker posts if your making your own, otherwise the engine is the easiest place.

Wotland · Post by **Wotland** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:02 am

Hello,

All informations you want on crank scraper : http://www.crank-scrapers.com/ebay%20ads/ebay_index.htm

Dimitri

mike332 · Post by **mike332** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:21 am

Wotland wrote:Hello,

All informations you want on crank scraper : http://www.crank-scrapers.com/ebay%20ads/ebay_index.htm

Dimitri

Thanks, that is really interesting stuff! Had alook at the product range, do they do one for the rover 3.5? I couldn't see one, does anybody know anybody who does make them for my application?

Wotland · Post by **Wotland** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:29 am

Hello again, they sell directly on ebay :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dual-cra ... 6508QQrdZ1

mike332 · Post by **mike332** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:59 pm

Wotland wrote:Hello again, they sell directly on ebay :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dual-cra ... 6508QQrdZ1

Great stuff, never realised it was the same engine! Will have to get one of those, with exchange rates as they are, including post that's only around £50 ish, so a bargain

Think I'll do a wing type sump and move the pick up as advised earlier, not sure about the oil supply to the top though, a bit worried about not getting enough oil up there, may need some convincing on that one.....

Post by **katanaman** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:35 pm

Make sure you get the right one as a 300 or 4.6 isn't going to do much good in a 3.5.

The oil at the top only really cools the springs and lubes the rockers so its not like you would be cutting oil to a cam. In fact your supplying more oil to the cam and crank if you restrict the heads. Your also stopping the oil being stored in the heads which the Rover engine is known for doing at high revs. Just don't cut it so much that your valve springs overheat.

mike332 · Post by **mike332** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:54 pm

katanaman wrote:Make sure you get the right one as a 300 or 4.6 isn't going to do much good in a 3.5.

The oil at the top only really cools the springs and lubes the rockers so its not like you would be cutting oil to a cam. In fact your supplying more oil to the cam and crank if you restrict the heads. Your also stopping the oil being stored in the heads which the Rover engine is known for doing at high revs. Just don't cut it so much that your valve springs overheat.

silly me, still got my head in OHC mode, so forgot that the rover v8 is a pushrod affair

I've been used to working on the ford pinto's for that long I forget that not all engines have the cam at the top

Am I right in thinking that the oil drains back at the rear of the heads? in which case a few degrees of tilt backwards on the engine might help a bit with the drain back? So does 3/16 sound right for the restriction on the oil feed as suggested or should I go a little bigger?

Picking the engine up hopefully today, so can't wait to get stuck in

The Original Tom · Post by **The Original Tom** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:00 pm

Surely you are limiting flow to the cam? I know the bearings are fed separately by internal oilways like the crank is, but you need to have oil to the heads, which then flows down the valley and fills the lifters / lubes the cam lobes.
If you restrict oil supply to the heads, the cam lobes will wear faster and the lifters won't lift fully (if they're hydraulic lifters, obviously not if you use solid ones

)

Post by **katanaman** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:14 pm

There is a dirty great big thing called a crank that splashes more than enough oil around to feed the cam. The lifters also deliberately leak oil onto the cam and of course whatever supplies the cam bearings comes out the side to supply the cam. So no you don't need oil in the heads to lube the cam.

I have no idea where the idea came from that the engine at an angle helps drain back. I have no idea if its right or not but I don't see what odds it can possibly make and Landrover didn't think so either. The oil can drain back all the way along the valley as its open to the bottom end. I would mount it level and save the pinion angle problems unless of course you need to fit it at a tilt for space.