What V8 Engine For Defender 90

beanyman1000 · Post by **beanyman1000** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:55 pm

Hi there, newbie to this forum,
I have purchased a 1999 defender 90 TD5,
I am going to rebuild it with V8, I know you are going to say WHY? but I used to own a 90 50th anniversary, and foolishly sold back in 2004 when I moved to France. So my retirement hobby is going to be be Build a new one, If it means new chassis etc. so be it.
I am not a mechanic or a welder, so I need to know what is the best V8 to put straight in, (after refurb of course) I was thinking of getting a P38 Range Rover auto and trying to fit the whole lot in. Is this possible?
I know how to hold a spanner, and can do most things, I part built a V12 Dax Cobra many years back, so I have some idea, but ideally I would like it to be just nuts and bolts.

I am sure you guys will know the answer.

unstable load · Post by **unstable load** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:21 pm

If your Defender is complete, then all you need is the engine to bolt onto the box. and then the fun starts with rewiring the engine for the V8 and fitting the ECUs.

The P38 T/C is a left side output so you will need to replace your diffs, too. With a Landy box and T/C you keep your current diffs.

beanyman1000 · Post by **beanyman1000** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:26 am

Hi There thanks for replying, what I was wondering is, can I use "all" the parts from the RR, i.e. engine auto box and Transfer box, plus the axles, will it all fit? I can get someone else to sort out the electrics (hopefully)

Post by **Rossco** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:49 am

Yes is the simple answer.

Be aware though that the LT230 and Borg Warner transfer boxes are different hands, they output the drive to the front axle on different sides.

Why not go the Buick 455 route

russell_ram · Post by **russell_ram** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:09 pm

beanyman1000 wrote:Hi There thanks for replying, what I was wondering is, can I use "all" the parts from the 38A RR, i.e. engine auto box and Transfer box, plus the axles, will it all fit? I can get someone else to sort out the electrics (hopefully)

NO, the 38A axles won't easily fit a Defender chassis - they are completely different.

Your best bet would be to use a Discovery or Range Rover Classic unit - the chassis are basically the 'same' as a Defender one. You can rebody either of those as a Defender with some bracketry or the PU and Axles will drop 'straight into' a Defender chassis.

beanyman1000 · Post by **beanyman1000** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:40 pm

Thanks Guys
I knew this would happen, loads of ideas from everyone, it gets more confusing, So to do a straight swap into complete defender 90 I should use a RR V8 classic or a Discovery for the Axles. Is that a classic discovery or will any of them fit, and what is a PU, told you I was not a mechanic.

garrycol · Post by **garrycol** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:40 am

If you already have a complete 90 TD5 - why not leave everything as is and just take out the TD5 and replace it with the V8 - leave everything else in the 90 as is.

No mucking around and the end result will be better than the mods you are thinking about.

Garry

unstable load · Post by **unstable load** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:19 am

Defender:
R380 gearbox for manual
ZF4HP22 for automatic
LT230 Transfer Case with right side front axle output and the option for diff locking, depending on model.

P38A:
ZF4HP22 or 24 depending on model.
Borg Warner transfer case with left side front axle output. No diff lock, it has a viscous coupling instead.

As for the axles, there are a number of choices available, being Salisbury, Rover and P38 types. You are going to need to crawl under the vehicle to identify the type fitted and then look at this list to see what you have on your car.
https://www.landroverworkshop.com/axles ... /axlecodes

The long and short of it, though, is that the Range Rover P38 axles are the same as the Disco2 with the exception that the RR front is a left input and the D2 is right input. The pumpkins will interchange, but the body of the axles is obviously different due to the input handing sides.

There are also internal differences between the diesel box and the V8 ones due to engine characteristics, so you will need a Land Rover gearbox to mate to your Range Rover engine. The Landy box is also physically different to the Rangie one, the bellhousing is different and the output is different due to the shaft/mounting requirements for the LT230/Borg Warner transfer cases.

Just for the P38, there are (I think) 3 choices of torque converter, depending on engine choice and capacity, so another difference to contend with.

I would suggest that you get a LAND ROVER V8 gearbox and use your current transfer case. This will keep your shift lever the same and all the mountings etc will stay unmolested. If you have a P38 engine, it will bolt straight onto the box.

Your biggest challenge is going to be the electronics. I am a bit vague on this area, sorry, but you will need to remove the Td5 electronics from the car and then rewire it with the V8 ECU and ancillary wiring.
For that, I'd suggest you find a scrapped vehicle and remove the wiring harnesses and swap them over in totality, with the associated ECUs. Then, you are going to need to find someone with either a Hawkeye or Nanocom OBD reader to reprogramme the various boxes to the new installation vis-a-vis serial numbers and configuration.
The BCU (body ECU) in your car is right now coded for Td5 and the associated box, so it will need to be told that there are new bits fitted and it needs to talk to them.

An alternative would be Mega Squirt or similar aftermarket control for the engine and gearbox, but then you will lose some features of the vehicle that source from the current OEM fit. You could parallel a lot of them, but that is way over my head.

If you are going to all this trouble, remember the V8s have liner issues, so you will be well advised to top-hat liner the engine while it is out to prevent heartache down the line if it suddenly starts blowing into the cooling system, and requires removal and repair.

Good luck, mate! You have a serious challenge ahead of you. I'd love to tackle something like that, just for the experience.

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:54 am

For my money, I would get a GEMS V8 from a Range Rover P38. There is an ECU available to make this run in 'standalone' mode from Tornado Systems. I would keep the existing gearbox, but change the bellhousing and input shaft to one suitable for the V8. That way you keep all your existing transmission / props / axles. Forget a P38 transmission as (as has been already said) it's the other way over, so totally different.
Alternatively look at Ashcroft Transmissions to get a bespoke gearbox for your application (if the TD5 ratios aren't to your liking).

Then you're just on trivial details like radiator, exhausts etc.

I would rebuild the engine with Top Hat liners whilst doing it, so you know it's going to last.

Chris.

beanyman1000 · Post by **beanyman1000** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:41 pm

garrycol wrote:If you already have a complete 90 TD5 - why not leave everything as is and just take out the TD5 and replace it with the V8 - leave everything else in the 90 as is.

No mucking around and the end result will be better than the mods you are thinking about.

Garry

IS that correct didn't think it would be that straight forward, what about extra power on the existing axles etc. are they strong enough. I have no idea I am just a new boy wanting to play.

beanyman1000 · Post by **beanyman1000** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:20 pm

unstable load wrote:Defender:
R380 gearbox for manual
ZF4HP22 for automatic
LT230 Transfer Case with right side front axle output and the option for diff locking, depending on model.

P38A:
ZF4HP22 or 24 depending on model.
Borg Warner transfer case with left side front axle output. No diff lock, it has a viscous coupling instead.

As for the axles, there are a number of choices available, being Salisbury, Rover and P38 types. You are going to need to crawl under the vehicle to identify the type fitted and then look at this list to see what you have on your car.
https://www.landroverworkshop.com/axles ... /axlecodes

The long and short of it, though, is that the Range Rover P38 axles are the same as the Disco2 with the exception that the RR front is a left input and the D2 is right input. The pumpkins will interchange, but the body of the axles is obviously different due to the input handing sides.

There are also internal differences between the diesel box and the V8 ones due to engine characteristics, so you will need a Land Rover gearbox to mate to your Range Rover engine. The Landy box is also physically different to the Rangie one, the bellhousing is different and the output is different due to the shaft/mounting requirements for the LT230/Borg Warner transfer cases.

Just for the P38, there are (I think) 3 choices of torque converter, depending on engine choice and capacity, so another difference to contend with.

I would suggest that you get a LAND ROVER V8 gearbox and use your current transfer case. This will keep your shift lever the same and all the mountings etc will stay unmolested. If you have a P38 engine, it will bolt straight onto the box.

Your biggest challenge is going to be the electronics. I am a bit vague on this area, sorry, but you will need to remove the Td5 electronics from the car and then rewire it with the V8 ECU and ancillary wiring.
For that, I'd suggest you find a scrapped vehicle and remove the wiring harnesses and swap them over in totality, with the associated ECUs. Then, you are going to need to find someone with either a Hawkeye or Nanocom OBD reader to reprogramme the various boxes to the new installation vis-a-vis serial numbers and configuration.
The BCU (body ECU) in your car is right now coded for Td5 and the associated box, so it will need to be told that there are new bits fitted and it needs to talk to them.

An alternative would be Mega Squirt or similar aftermarket control for the engine and gearbox, but then you will lose some features of the vehicle that source from the current OEM fit. You could parallel a lot of them, but that is way over my head.

If you are going to all this trouble, remember the V8s have liner issues, so you will be well advised to top-hat liner the engine while it is out to prevent heartache down the line if it suddenly starts blowing into the cooling system, and requires removal and repair.

Good luck, mate! You have a serious challenge ahead of you. I'd love to tackle something like that, just for the experience.

Sounds a bit complicated can I not just buy a RR and just put ALL the bits on the defender???

garrycol · Post by **garrycol** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:24 pm

I understood the 90 also came with the V8 which ran the same running gear and gearbox etc as the TD5 - as mentioned the TD5 just has a different (shorter bell housing) so the input shaft is different.

So same brakes, axles, diffs, tfr case etc etc etc

beanyman1000 · Post by **beanyman1000** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:34 pm

garrycol wrote:I understood the 90 also came with the V8 which ran the same running gear and gearbox etc as the TD5 - as mentioned the TD5 just has a different (shorter bell housing) so the input shaft is different.

So same brakes, axles, diffs, tfr case etc etc etc

So if I understand this correctly the only difference is the bell housing because the TD5 is Different,(shoter) so I would need to get engine mounts moved (welded) or get a nice NEW chassis. MMmmm I wonder which it will be???

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:37 pm

Worth double checking, but I am sure the chassis will not need modifying. The V8 will fit up to the chassis just fine. The difference in length etc. is taken care of by the bellhousing and input shaft on the gearbox.

Chris.

beanyman1000 · Post by **beanyman1000** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:42 pm

ChrisJC wrote:Worth double checking, but I am sure the chassis will not need modifying. The V8 will fit up to the chassis just fine. The difference in length etc. is taken care of by the bellhousing and input shaft on the gearbox.

Chris.

Thanks for the info, so you think the RR classic will fit straight in the the Defender TD5 without ANY mods. Engine, Gearbox and Transfer box? I was thinking of getting a new chassis anyway, so the Richards V8 chassis it will fit anyway.