Rover 3.5 lump water in oil.

The Original Tom · Post by **The Original Tom** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:51 am

Hello people, my first time here - I tried to join the old forum but never could! But you can all rest assured I'm a petrol-head through and through, and especially fond of my V8's!

Any way I finally got my completely rebuilt 3.5 V8 carb lump into the landy last year (to replace the 2.5 4-pot it had before), but spend most of my time at uni so don't get to drive it much.
It had 9.35CR pistons, a Kent camshaft, similar to the "hi-torque" one that RPI sell. Most other parts are standard, but it moves well enough for me

However it's done nearly 900 miles now, and I can see mayonaise under the oil filler cap. There's also steam from the rocker cover vents, and the engine temperature rockets up even on a cool day.

I have a fixed (not viscous) engine fan and a kenlowe electric fan & stat.
The fixed fan has no cowling as I don't have one, but the temperature continues to rise with both of these on, and traveling at 40-60mph. It ruches to 90deg, then creeps up - the highest it ever got was about 99deg.
I'm using a 52mm gauge from a TVR (rover v8 era), as I figured same engines - same temp range.

Now, this was my first ever engine build (started when I was 18 ) so I may have made some mistakes along the way:
When I was cleaning the block up I used a very fine wire wheel from a dremmel to clean up the mating faces on both the block and the heads it was very fine and I didn't dither over particular places - could I have fudged them so that they will leak?

Also, I didnt' get them skimmed as money was a very big issue, but the engine was fine before I rebuilt it (except the cam and followers, so I did the rest while I was at it!)

Other than heads, where could the water be getting in? I've been told to check the inlet man gasket - apparently they don't always seal?
If the timing cover was very slightly mis-fitted could this create a leak?
I used gaskets and blue sealent (carefully) on everything except the heads, so it should be good and leak-free!

I'm thinking that this should be my plan of action:
1) Pressure test
2) Heads off and miced for straightness
3) Either skimmed if needed, or refitted with comp. gaskets (aware of CR drops)

Or I could just whip off the heads and refit those and the inlet man with comp gaskets and cross my fingers?

I haven't had any tests done yet, but it's not dropping cylinders, and when run on petrol it's a bloody monster! easily hauls 50 in 3rd, and 75 in 4th,
haven't had the balls to see how fast it'll go in 5th yet!!

Sorry for this long and rambling post, but I've invested so much time, a lot of heart (90% of the time it was a 1-man build), and about £1500 on the engine and box, and I've about had enough - I just want it running now!!

Post by **katanaman** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:38 am

Are you using the proper sender for the gauge? If it isn't the proper sender you could be getting inaccurate temp readings
Are you actually using coolant? If the engine isn't used regularly it can sill create moisture internally.
If your actually loosing coolant then the first thing to do is either carry out or get someone to do a sniffer test. This will tell you if there are hydrocarbons in the coolant. If there is then it would point to head/gasket or block problems. If there isn't then it could well be inlet gasket related.
I would think twice about just throwing on some comp gaskets as they will lower your compression ratio a fair bit with the obvious loss in performance. There are many many people using the tin gaskets with no problems what so ever so despite what some people might think they aren't an inherent problem.

landybob_v8 · Post by **landybob_v8** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:58 am

welcome tom (rob heath off difflock)

mines a non runner at the moment too but im stuck by the rain at the moment

pressurising the cooling system
was running between 4 - 6 - 8 cylinders
i reckon ive got my ign timing so far off now with a dodgy ign amp trying to sort it,
that im going to start new from fresh, new gaskets etc sticking on a webber or holley carb setup while i source a hotwire system to replace the 20 something year old flapper system ive had nothing but trouble with

i reckon my mistake was getting untested "reconditioned" heads off ebay and trusting them

soon as i can im getting my 3.9 heads off climbing chris from differs and skimmed and going with the composites

dont reckon you could do far wrong yourself there with the inlet manifold too as i had loads of problems trying to seal it myself.

if i remember you had a chuffing ticking noise before did you find out what that was????

good luck tom

ian.stewart · Post by **ian.stewart** » Mon May 14, 2007 11:23 am

How often do you use the car, Rovers if used for short journeys often do steam for a while, I would be sceptical about the temp gauge, Especially as its from a TVR, TVR were well known for mixing and matching bits, and the gauges were possibly sourced from a ford, and the ford sender used, I may be wrong, Smiths is also another possability. Get a gauge and sender that you can verify they are compatable, or do know anyone with a infa red temp reader, and aim it at the area of the sender, that will be far more accurate than guessing with a gauge you are unsure of.

The Original Tom · Post by **The Original Tom** » Mon May 14, 2007 12:47 pm

Ok, I have a plan:
-I'll use the spare sender I have (same part no) and connect that up to the gauge instead, using a croc clip to earth it to the engine and leave in unscrewed.
-boil some water in the kettle and use a bulb thermometer to read the 'real' temperature.
-then at the same time drop in the electric sender and see how closely the reading fits - this will help me calibrate it a bit!

Ian - I get home to see the car about once every 5-6 weeks, and I know my parents run it for a while while I'm not there, so it rarely goes 2 weeks without a start up and drive.
Also I KNOW there is a leak because of the copious amounts of mayo, I just expected to be dropping cylinders and feel down on power if it was the heads?

Rob - I have a spare pair of heads. I'll check them out and see what nick they're in, maybe I'll port, skim, re-valve and re-spring spring the spare heads while I'm having the existing ones checked, that way I can swap over all the rocker gear and heads when I come to changing the gasket (if I do?)

1 more thing. If the senders etc all turn out ok and compression seems fine, then if I remove the inlet manifold on the assumption that that is where the leak is from, and replace it with a composite, will I have to replace the gasket again if I take it off to do the heads?
It's £12 I can do without spending twice if avoidable...

The Original Tom · Post by **The Original Tom** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:57 pm

Oh and while I'm at it, is there a good website or FAQ anywhere on how to port rover V8 heads? I'm not sure the heads I've got but Rob you gave me the 2 spare ones. They had injector cut-outs in them so I assume they were from a 3.5efi - what size valves should these be?

adikt · Post by **adikt** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:56 pm

The speedpro how to powertune rover V8 book by Des Hammill has some good lifesize scale cutaways and the Speedpro cylinder head book is a goodun too (I'm not on comission honest!!) let us know how the guage test goes!

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:28 pm

Just some other points:
- Std. 4 cyl rad + viscous fan = OK
- Std. 4 cyl rad + 16" Kenlowe = Not OK
- Sherpa Rad with modified thicker core + 16" Kenlowe = OK

I would do a compression test and a pressure test on the cooling system.
There is only a very small area on the head / block face where a leak will run between a cylinder and the water jacket. Leaking head gaskets (in my experience) don't cause a water or oil loss, they just erode the head! (and make a noise like a blowing exhaust)

Water in oil is most likely to be a cracked block behind the liner, or some problem in the inlet manifold / head / valley gasket area.

For ref. my 4.6 V8 SWB will pull 60 in 2nd, 90 in 3rd and it would do 120 in top but the aerodynamics keep it down to about 105.

Chris.

The Original Tom · Post by **The Original Tom** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:54 pm

If it's a cracked block I'm gonna be seriously pissed-off!!!
Right not it's just not a possibility that I'm entertaining.

Adikt - I'll keep those books in mind, I might be interested in a good tuning book. Only trouble is that's all I'll ever do is tune my landy!

ChrisJC - Point understood about the fans. Ideally I'd not have any sort of engine driven fan - I don't like them, but although I know the single fan was enough for the 2.5, it just can't cut it with the V8.
Eventually I'll have twin electric fans behind the rad on the engine side that are thermostatically controlled, and the single one I use currently will ust be operated by an on/off switch for warm-weather off roading.

I will get the system(s) pressure tested. Would is reasonable for a V8 (considering it had honed bores and new rings about 800 miles ago!) about 220psi? What about the coolant system? Do you test that dry or with coolant in?

Also as a matter of interest - I had a noise that sounded like a blowing exhaust, but that turned out to be the exhaust and I fixed it with hemertite (or whatever it's called) and tightened the bolts. However the noise it back now, only quieter. I assumed this was the same noise as before, however I wouldn't rule out a leaking head now...

AAARGH!

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:31 pm

Cooling system is tested with water in - just whip off the radiator cap and fit the pressure testing gadget.

And with compression, it's not so much the absolute value that matters (within limits!), more that all 8 are within a few PSI of each other. What you're looking for is 1 or 2 that are much lower than the rest.

Chris.

The Original Tom · Post by **The Original Tom** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:45 am

Cheers Chris & others.

Why will standing the engine for a while make it steam? Also on the rare occasions it does get run it does about a 32 mile round trip a couple of times before becoming idle again.
By steam, I mean steam comes from the engine - there's little or none from the exhaust after it's warmed up.

The Original Tom · Post by **The Original Tom** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:38 pm

In case anyone's wondering?
Finally got it to a garage yesterday for a free (the best kind

) pressure test.
The chap seemed to know his oats when it came to Rover V8's, commenting on things like it not being cross-bolted etc.
After a look under the oil cap and a check of the dipstick, he pressurised the coolant system to 85psi and we stood and chatted for about 10 minutes. The whole time it held true at 85psi - very pleased and very relieved, it looks like it was just condensation from under-use as suggested. I took it for a spot of off-roading yestarday (about 1.5hrs total) and there's already less mayo as the water burns off.
Also the overheating problem I thought I had was, again as predicted, the sender. I dropped the sender in a jar of water from the kettle at about 80degs (measured with a jam thermometer

) , and the gague showed 110degs, so not far out then?!
I'm running between 90-100 on the gauge, so about 70-80degs I reckon - absolutely fine!

I'll do more tests tomorrow and play with a few resistors I have lying around to get it accurate as possible, and then it's sorted.

I'm one chuffed bunny!!! Cheers all