The V8 Owners Forum -

I've now got an Edelbrock 500 carb, manifold etc kit to replace the twin SU's on my 4.6 but it'll need the jets and/or rods changed.
I see 2 choices, a rolling road session or do it myself with the aid of lambda sensors but have no idea if the latter is feasible for me.
Can someone point me in the right direction to find out about how lambda sensors can help me do this, all the manufacturers stuff I've read so far assumes the reader is familiar with these systems and I'm not so I suppose what I'm after is information something like in one of those 'for dummies' books?
For example I don't have a laptop so it looks like I'd have to buy one and run around with it connected (do I?) - this'd mean rigging up a power supply for it and there's no bodywork to stop it falling onto the road and no roof to keep rain away either but I suppose I could get around this with bungees and plastic bags.
I do already have the threaded bungs in the exhaust for sensors though, assuming 1: the caps aren't rusted solid after not being disturbed for the last 6 years and 2: they're the right size.
Any help would be greatly appreciated guys.

Standard is M18x1.5

The sensor, is only one aspect of the kit. Of course you need an entire wideband kit. Display/controller/sensor. there are many styles and designs. Whilst Innovate stuff is fairly well made and they offer lots, IMO they are just unreliable and eat sensors. They always have been, so I would avoid them

Ideally have one sensor/display per bank, but depends if you want to spend the extra. One averaging all 8 cylinders, or just one per bank would suffice, but can also mask issues when things are not running so right. One per bank can help identify problems better.

I would say make the install permanent, it's always nice to see things are running well ( or not ), but there are many ways to make it less permanent.


A quick google some videos







Having the ability to record the data with reference to engine load/rpm, can be invaluable when tuning. But even just visually watching the gauge when driving, you can remember under what conditions things were happy, or unhappy to assist with any changes.

There will be loads more videos, they were just the first few that seemed to make some sense relative to carbs

I used an Innovate LC1 in my Landie to set that up, and I left it permanently wired. It was very useful to get it running well, particularly as I was a bit concerned about it running lean at WOT.

Chris.

I've got one of these in my car https://ldperformance.co.uk/product/wid ... ontroller/ I'm only plugged into one bank of the engine, but as I've got a very carb like set up with fuel/air going through a shared plenum I can't do per bank/cylinder tuning anyway.

scudderfish wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 5:49 am I've got one of these in my car https://ldperformance.co.uk/product/wid ... ontroller/ I'm only plugged into one bank of the engine, but as I've got a very carb like set up with fuel/air going through a shared plenum I can't do per bank/cylinder tuning anyway.

But it's still very good to see if both banks are healthy, running the same or if there is an issue. Monitoring only one bank, you can only assume this.

Widebands are so cheap these days even despite some inflation, they're an invaluable tool.

scudderfish wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 5:49 am I've got one of these in my car https://ldperformance.co.uk/product/wid ... ontroller/ I'm only plugged into one bank of the engine, but as I've got a very carb like set up with fuel/air going through a shared plenum I can't do per bank/cylinder tuning anyway.

It doesn't look like it'll record data or have I missed something?
So far I've only found 2 that'll take an SD card, Innovate DL32 which doesn't come with a sensor and their LM2 which is hand-held rather than vehicle mounted so I reckon I'm resigned to buying a laptop and riding around with it in a rucksack. This is getting expensive!

ratwing wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:27 pm

scudderfish wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 5:49 am I've got one of these in my car https://ldperformance.co.uk/product/wid ... ontroller/ I'm only plugged into one bank of the engine, but as I've got a very carb like set up with fuel/air going through a shared plenum I can't do per bank/cylinder tuning anyway.

It doesn't look like it'll record data or have I missed something?
So far I've only found 2 that'll take an SD card, Innovate DL32 which doesn't come with a sensor and their LM2 which is hand-held rather than vehicle mounted so I reckon I'm resigned to buying a laptop and riding around with it in a rucksack. This is getting expensive!

Unless you're also going to give it other references as I said, like engine load, rpm ( and more ), there isn't any point in recording.

Why do you think you need to record mixture only ? with no points of reference to use it with ?

The recorder is yourself. Drive it, remember the type of driving you have an issue with in terms of mixture.

And LM2 can be vehicle mounted if you mount it in the vehicle, same with any setup. But as mentioned, I very much dislike Innovate, as they tend to be very unreliable and kill sensors often.
DL32 is a datalogger, it is not a wideband controller or display

If you insisted on Innovate and want a round gauge, you could use one of their cheaper gauges, MTX and their pocket logger PL-1 to view and record.
Or no gauge, and an LC-2

So be clear on exactly what you want, then you can decide what product you need.
Do you need to record ? ( baring in mind what I've said about needing other parameters for recording to be of any real value ).
Do you want a permanent install ?
Do you want any particular type of display ? etc etc

The idea was to get the right jets and rods in the carb and I thought some kind of lambda sensor setup would enable me to do this.
I realise it sounds like I don’t know what I’m doing, it’s because I don’t and it’s turning into a very steep learning curve in something completely new to me and as much as I’d like to figure it all out so I can sort the carb myself, I think it’s not going to happen.
So thanks for the replies, I do appreciate them but it looks like I’ll be better off finding someone else to do it for me.

A lambda sensor is a very accurate nose. It smells your exhaust and tells you if you are rich or lean and by how much. You need to know how rich or lean your engine should be at specific times (warm up, idle, cruise, load, acceleration, deceleration) and then compare that to what you see on the gauge, and then use that to tweak the fuelling. It won't tell you what jets and rods to use.
If you can afford to take a punt on the expense, it's a new tool you can learn to use and that's got to be more satisfying than giving someone else the money?

ratwing wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 8:55 pm The idea was to get the right jets and rods in the carb and I thought some kind of lambda sensor setup would enable me to do this.
I realise it sounds like I don’t know what I’m doing, it’s because I don’t and it’s turning into a very steep learning curve in something completely new to me and as much as I’d like to figure it all out so I can sort the carb myself, I think it’s not going to happen.
So thanks for the replies, I do appreciate them but it looks like I’ll be better off finding someone else to do it for me.

A wideband lambda setup is exactly what is needed.

It is simple. Install it and watch the gauge. Same as you would a rev counter, speedo, temperature etc etc....just don't watch too long instead of the road when you're driving in case you crash.

There is nothing that needs to be complicated about it. And having one installed will also make things easier for any tuner going forward. And having one installed, you can keep an eye on it at all times in case there are any problems or areas of concern

If you want one with a round gauge, buy round one. If you want a square one, buy a square one, etc etc etc.

it is not an "expense", any more than fuel is an "expense"....It is a very useful tool/instrument, same way a speedo is not an expense. And indeed, helping to tune more efficiently, you will use less of that very expensive fuel.

I'd watched the second video (Logging your carburettors behaviuor -AFR- and analysis) and thought that's just what I need, a graph showing how rich/lean it is under actual riding conditions. I won't remember all the gauge readings so don't see how useful it'd be when first setting up a new carb?
So then with the graph I can use this https://edelbrock.com/pub/media/wysiwyg ... manual.pdf , see if it goes better and repeat until I get the best running.
It seems simple enough but I haven't got a laptop (and fingers crossed it doesn't fall off when out on a test ride) so add one to the cost of the AEM kit in the video plus there's the jets/rods and the total isn't much different to getting someone else to set it up on a rolling road.
Whilst I'm loathe to pay for someone to do something I can do myself, this is like trying to learn a foreign language without an english translation so I think I'll have another go at trying to understand what's involved and then decide whether or not it's beyond me.

You do not need a laptop.

The same way you do not need a laptop to see what speed you are doing, or what revs etc.

Now absolutely logging is a better solution, but as said, you must log other parameters too, or it is meaningless. RPM and engine load are essential for logging. But also easily doable.

But you do not need to record anything to check mixtures at idle.
You do not need to record anything to watch mixtures at say 60mph
You do not need to record anything to see mixtures at WOT...

In short, you do not need to record any of this, the same way you don't need to record to recall you drove at 30mph at a certain time, or 40mph etc etc

You're making something more complicated than it needs to be for a simple gauge install.

If you can watch any other gauge on a car, then this is no different.