The V8 Owners Forum -

Hey, been looking for some fuel filters for my new fuel system. I currently have a Facet Red Top Racing low pressure pump and a brand new Bosch 910 high pressure pump. The plan is to install the Facet as a lift pump, then feed the Bosch pump, then a high pressure filter, then to the fuel rail.

Question is, I want to fit a low pressure pump to act like a bit of a swirl pot but can't decide where the best place is, before the Facet or between the Facet and Bosch?

Alos, is it better to mount the high pressure pump in/near the engine bay (I've seen a few like this).

Been looking at things like this on eBay: 8030206993

but can't really justify the cost. Anybody recommend any other suitable fuel filters?

thanks

I have two of those filters in my fuel system, a pre and a post filter. Pretty good value when you consider you never have to replace them. you cant use a filter as a swirl pot. They should always be mounted on their side, if you don't then the crap they stop wont settle and it stays in the flow. Not good when it comes to stuff like water in the fuel. With the filter on its side it only fills just above the inlet outlet connections leaving practically nothing in reserve. A proper fuel swirl pot is a much better idea if you cant get a sump either in or on the tank.

Marki

I beg to differ
http://bcbroncos.com/store/product_info ... cts_id=119

this would work as a filter and swirl pot all in one
Put the Facit near the main tank and push fuel to here

Feed from this to the EFI pump

First and last time I saw this setup!

Ian

Not exactly the filters he was looking at and that's more a bodged diesel type filter than anything else.

chodjinn wrote: The plan is to install the Facet as a lift pump, then feed the Bosch pump, then a high pressure filter, then to the fuel rail.

Question is, I want to fit a low pressure pump to act like a bit of a swirl pot but can't decide where the best place is, before the Facet or between the Facet and Bosch?

Alos, is it better to mount the high pressure pump in/near the engine bay (I've seen a few like this).

Please clarify.

The Facet pump, is a low pressure pump.

Secondly...will the Facet be able to keep up with the flow abilites of the Bosch pump ????? The Bosch will likely be capable of about 3 litres per minute. If you are using a Facet to feed it, the Facet must be capable of at least that amount, preferably more.
That is critical !!

Where do you intend to fit the fuel filter ??

Before the efi pump would be best, as efi pumps, do not like dirt.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-filter-Rover ... otohosting

Or anything similar to the above. Just typical Bosch/porsche etc efi filter. It will probably have female threads at each end.

Usually efi pumps are mounted close to the fuel supply....although, if you are pumping fuel into it...obviously that becomes less critical.

I dont really think the fuel filter as a swirl pot idea, will work very well.

Unless you mount the Filter above the Bosch, and ensure the link between the 2, is suitable large ( same diam as inlet to pump anyway )

ok, I have a Facet pump and a Bosch pump. I want to know what the best arrangement is for sorting the fuel supply in my car. I don't yet have any filters so was wondering whether I need one or two, and where to mount them in relation to the pump(s).

The only reason I was going to use the Facet to lift fuel to the Bosch was that I read somewhere the pumps can get noisy from cavitation (which also causes damage) if the fuel supply isn't constant, and that the high pressure EFI pumps don't work as well at 'sucking' the fuel from the tank.

I have seen many arrangements where people use Facet Red or Holley Blue pumps to lift the fuel to a swirl pot, then that feeds the EFI pump/filter arrangment. A1 rally sport use two Holleys to lift the fuel to a single large swirl pot, which then feeds two monster Bosch 044 pumps via filters. Obviously that's a bit over the top for me, but I'm looking into a similar but simpler set up.

I was only trying to work out a system without a swirl pot as I haven't really got room for one, hence why I thought a big-ass filter might suffice. I suppose I might have to fit a swirl pot then.

chodjinn wrote:ok, I have a Facet pump and a Bosch pump. I want to know what the best arrangement is for sorting the fuel supply in my car. I don't yet have any filters so was wondering whether I need one or two, and where to mount them in relation to the pump(s).

The only reason I was going to use the Facet to lift fuel to the Bosch was that I read somewhere the pumps can get noisy from cavitation (which also causes damage) if the fuel supply isn't constant, and that the high pressure EFI pumps don't work as well at 'sucking' the fuel from the tank.

I have seen many arrangements where people use Facet Red or Holley Blue pumps to lift the fuel to a swirl pot, then that feeds the EFI pump/filter arrangment. A1 rally sport use two Holleys to lift the fuel to a single large swirl pot, which then feeds two monster Bosch 044 pumps via filters. Obviously that's a bit over the top for me, but I'm looking into a similar but simpler set up.

I was only trying to work out a system without a swirl pot as I haven't really got room for one, hence why I thought a big-ass filter might suffice. I suppose I might have to fit a swirl pot then.

the object of the Facet pump in the application you describe is to act as a lift pump to keep the swirl pot full, the injection pump then goes on to feed the injection, at whatever pressure is required, what is essential in this system is the lift pump can supply more fuel than the engine uses at WOT, the other point of a swirl pot is to negate problems of surge in the tank where the pickup is uncovered and sucks air from the tank, but there is enough fuel in the swirl pot to compensate for the loss of fuel at the pick up, the system, Rather than a Facet I would be looking at a 110gph holley or carter pimp, better safe than sorry.
I use dosent use a swirl pot, all I have done is find a fuel filter that had the largest inlet and run a Large bore pipe from the tank, 1", to the filter, the pickup is at the rear of the tank, the theory is if the fuel surges there is enough fuel in the pipe to stop air getting into the system, and when the pickup is covered again there is enough room to let the air return to the tank, the pump and filter are both mounted well below the bottm level of the tank so there is allways af fule head on the pump. I used to suffer from surge problems, but dont think i do any more

hmm, so essentially I can't use the Facet then. Strange as I've seen 300bhp cars use a single Facet red top as a lift pump no worries.

What are the risks of just using the Bosch 910 and a suitable filter?

I dont know how the Facet red flows...

Do you have any info on it ??

If you can gravity feed the Bosch, with clean fuel, that wont see air under cornering, then it will be fine on its own.

think the Facet is only about 35gph mate, well that's what Ask Google said. . .

Hmm, I do have a place to mount the fuel pump very low, in which case it would be gravity fed. I'm planning on a bespoke/new MGB tank with baffles so that might work then with a decent filter (shame they're so fuggin expensive!).

If I go that way: Tank > Filter > Pump > Fuel Rail > Regulator > Return to tank. That right?

Can't be that simple?!?

Thats a schematic with a swirl tank

Without is pretty much as you describe.

Schematic is OK but feed back to tank has to be the highest outlet so any air pumped by the low pressure / facit pump will be sent back to the tank. If not you will end up with a swirlpot that is not as full as possible and if the fuel surges away from the tank pickup you do not have the max possible volume to feed the engine!

As a thought my brother used to fly model aircraft. They used a tank and has a pickup that was on a piece of flesable pipe / hose - then no matter where the plane was - even upside down the weighted end was in the fuel. they called them clumk tanks as you heard the inside metal end clunk as you moved the plane

Perhaps something like this would also help

Ian

I would think if you went for the first version on the schematics the size of lift pump wouldn't be so important. A lot of the fuel going round the fuel injection is returned to tank but if it was returned to the swirl pot then the lift pump would only have to make up for what the engine is actually using. It wouldn't have to supply what the EFI pump is actually pumping which is completely different.

If you did not want to fit a swirl pot you would have to have the return from the engine connected to the fuel pipe after the low pres pump so the high pres pump would not be starved of fuel. you then would have the problem of the fuel presurising the in the return line. You would be better to have a swirl pot with the return to tank from the top.

Cheers George

katanaman wrote:I would think if you went for the first version on the schematics the size of lift pump wouldn't be so important. A lot of the fuel going round the fuel injection is returned to tank but if it was returned to the swirl pot then the lift pump would only have to make up for what the engine is actually using. It wouldn't have to supply what the EFI pump is actually pumping which is completely different.

First version would require the lift pump to supply enough fuel for the power the engine is using.

It will also heat the fuel much much quicker.

second drawing will require adequately sized fuel pumps, but the fuel, and pumps will run much cooler, so is the better option.