3.5 Camshaft worn again

Steven 90 · Post by **Steven 90** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:09 pm

Hello,

First post and already a problem

My 3.5 V8 landrover has a new camshaft about 80 000 km ago,the first one was badly worn also the camlifters.
It was replaced by a specialist and he placed a aftermarktet from a 3.9,it went verry wel hower now i discoverd that the camshaft is already worn on 2 lobes.
I knew that the camshaft is a problem with this type of engine however only 80 000 km is not much.
I was told to put in a Crower 50229 cam in,this would be better.
I will be running an autobox an use my ninety as an off-roader so i want torque not race power.
As you may have seen,i am from belgium so writing Englisch is a bitt of a problem,my reading is however much better (thank god).

Steven

marcjagman · Post by **marcjagman** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:56 pm

Sounds like either the wrong oil or the oil is getting round the engine properly.

Steven 90 · Post by **Steven 90** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:25 pm

marcjagman wrote:Sounds like either the wrong oil or the oil is getting round the engine properly.

Oil pump has new gears,pres relief valve,boosted spring etc.
The crank and camshaft bearins don't have any signs of wear so i don't think it is the oil.
I runned it on 10W40 semi sythetic,changed it every 7000 km and use origenal landrover filters.

Steven

ChrisJC · Post by **ChrisJC** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:35 pm

Search for ZDDP on this forum. The Rover V8 requires 'old fashioned' oil, preferably 20W50 with plenty of ZDDP in it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate
Modern oils have less ZDDP, and can cause cam wear.

Also, I hope the cam followers were changed at the same time as the new camshaft?

Chris.

Steven 90 · Post by **Steven 90** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:51 pm

Yes the cam followers where changed,they where realy realy bad.
Since then i also fitted new valve's,springs,piston rings etc...
I thougt i would run the engine for decades to come

Just found a acticle on slick 50 and also about zinc,don't know if it is true.

http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html

Regards

Steven

spend · Post by **spend** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:56 am

Is it the same lobes that are worn as the last, and others are relatively OK?

You could inspect the follower bores, valley cast area where oil spills over the cam etc if you are seeing it repeatedly in the same area of the cam.

Steven 90 · Post by **Steven 90** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:15 am

spend wrote:Is it the same lobes that are worn as the last, and others are relatively OK?

You could inspect the follower bores, valley cast area where oil spills over the cam etc if you are seeing it repeatedly in the same area of the cam.

No it are differente lobes,already checked and see no reason wy the oil would not get on the lobes.
When i openend the engine i saw that all the lobes had a good coating of oil,they where full of oil and the engine had not turned for weeks so i think the oiling is ok.
I am thinking maybey the tappet preload causes wear ? I did not checked it when i had my heads machined,had them a bitt grinded when i changed the head gasket.To ensure a good seal not more then to get a good surface.
When opening a friends engine yesterday whe saw also a worn camshaft and his valley cast area looks very smooth,it looks like it has been sandblasted.

Regards

Steven

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:43 am

Just for reference, what make and grade oil did you use - if you can remember every oil change? And what mileage did you change at?

Steven 90 · Post by **Steven 90** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:55 am

Always changed my oil arround 5000 -7500 km,and used genuine oil filter.Since there is no damage to the crank bearings i am thinking the oil filter did his jow verry well.
Most off the time it runned on the "housebrand" of my local part shop.(ad rosvelds).I was told it is a brand howerver in there one packaging.
Cant remeber wath brand it was.
I chekked the quality off the oil with what landrover recomends and it schould be ok.
I still think it is strange that this time there is no sign of wear on the hydraulich tappets,no a scratch to be seen.Berhaps this only occours when the shaft is already real bad worn ?

Steven

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:08 am

IIRC, the tappet faces are case hardened. The only wear you normally see on them is a slight dishing.

As regards the oil was it a simple mineral oil or synthetic or semi-synthetic?
And what grade? It would be good to trace what oils and specs cause a real problem.

I'm also unhappy about paying premium oil prices for a very under-stressed engine.

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:23 am

Hi
How did you run the camshaft in? Did you prime the system first with a an electric drill down the distributor hole? Did you then go through the procedure of fire it up, bring it straight up to 2000 to 2500 revs and keep it between those revs for 20 minutes? because that has a big influance on camshaft life. I think also the oil you are using is too thin, 20/50 is best for the rover, the oil pump just isnt good enough to avoid thinner oil partly draining back while it is standing overnight and while it may not be running dry it will be taking longer for the pressure to build. As Kevin says above Zinc addatives are vital to the life of flat tappet cams and especially while you run in the cam.
When you changed the cam last time did you run flushing oil through the engine first and try and get all the remains of the previous lobes out of the oil ways? I would certainly do it this time (actually I would strip the engine so I could clean the oil passages with a brush and hot tank the block, renew the main and big end bearings and maybe the cam bearings aswell, a ligh hone and a new set of piston rings would really freshen it up!)
Having said all the above, it is not uncommon for rovers to eat cam lobes in 80,000 Km, they generally last a little longer, may be 120K Km but they do not last long, especially if not run in properly.
As for cam choise, the 3.9 rover can is a good choice for an off roader with an auto box, can be retarded a couple of degrees for a bit more torque, but a good choice.
Best regards
Mike

Steven 90 · Post by **Steven 90** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:01 am

Hi,

No idea of the run in was done,had it replaced however it is a guy know for his Landrover garage so i think he has run it in.
From him i got the tip of filling the pump with grease through the oil filter hole.
How do you prime the pump with an electric drill ? I always fill it with vaseline and then use the starter without ignition until the oil light is out.
So if y make or perhaps buy a piece and rev the oil pump with a drill then i also can prime the pump ? Without the vaseline ?
The problem here in belgium is the weather,if i put 20W50 in then you can feel the engine starter having problem with getting the engine started.
Have the newer type starter and batt is fine.

Steven 90 · Post by **Steven 90** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:09 am

Steven 90 wrote:Hi,

No idea of the run in was done,had it replaced however it is a guy know for his Landrover garage so i think he has run it in.
From him i got the tip of filling the pump with grease through the oil filter hole.
How do you prime the pump with an electric drill ? I always fill it with vaseline and then use the starter without ignition until the oil light is out.
So if y make or perhaps buy a piece and rev the oil pump with a drill then i also can prime the pump ? Without the vaseline ?
The problem here in belgium is the weather,if i put 20W50 in then you can feel the engine starter having problem with getting the engine started.If it is realy could,it will be used as a weekend toy so change the oil to thinner in winter is not an option.
Have the newer type starter and batt is fine.

Has anyone experience with the crower 50229 ?

Regards Steven

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:44 am

Hi
To prime the pump with an electric drill, you take out the distributor, you can then buy or make a shaft that has a drive to match the oil pump drive, put that in the drill and put the other end down the hole where the distributor went, spin the drill until you get oil pressure then refit the dizzy, you don't have to pack the oil pump with vasaline.
Best regards
Mike

Steven 90 · Post by **Steven 90** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:39 pm

kiwicar wrote:Hi
To prime the pump with an electric drill, you take out the distributor, you can then buy or make a shaft that has a drive to match the oil pump drive, put that in the drill and put the other end down the hole where the distributor went, spin the drill until you get oil pressure then refit the dizzy, you don't have to pack the oil pump with vasaline.
Best regards
Mike

Useful info !
Thanks !